Tranquil Madness

Hmm. I didn't pick up that attitude from anyone last night, but my mental faculties may have been elsewhere.

I suspect that Dr. K was assuming this for people who want to get married. Clearly if you don't want to wed you wouldn't want children.

Wilson, I was referring to my Western Civilization class this morning.

Ziggy, you seem to be making the assumption that marriage automatically equates to a desire for parenthood. People with no desire for children can (and often do) marry.

Ah, that explains it. Clearly, I should pay more attention to time stamps.

I tend to agree with you -- about the general principle, anyway. I think it would be pretty easy to argue that sometimes the unselfish thing is to avoid having children (or getting married, for that matter). A lot of people do both for selfish reasons, and sometimes God has other plans entirely.

I think the position Ziggy, and Dr. K, are coming from is that one of the primary purposes of marriage is the bearing of children. Also, children, in the Bible, are viewed as a blessing from God. The logic going is that we should always desire a blessing from God. Included in these ideas would be the commands in Genesis to "be fruitful and multiply". By no means is this the sole reason or justification for marriage, even/especially for Christians. But I think it is a thing to consider.
I think there would be a difference between not actively attempting to have children, and actively trying not to. While I acknowledge that there are situations where having a child might be bad for the child as well, I still hold to the idea that having children is a major part of marriage, and shouldn't really be avoided. But if you don't get married, it's a non-issue.

Be careful Sharpton--your last comment about actively avoiding having children implies that you don't hold to the idea of birth control.

I wish I could hear Dr. K's exact words here.

I myself see no wrong in people who want to get married but don't want children. Some people are not children people and as such should not have children. But God instilled in many of them the same human desires, for which marriage is a haven. and sex isn't only about having children. Song of Solomon comes to mind. Burn with passion--not get married because you don't want children, or get married and take preventive measures to not have children? The latter doesn't seem wrong to me at all but rather wise--as long as one considers marriage to be God's will.

now for those people who don't want children but God has different plans...well, I've seen God work wonders when a baby is suddenly on the way. God's will prevails. I don't see wanting to be married but not have children as necessarily selfish. For two as one can do much for God.

I have gone from fear of having children (or rather, of being able to raise them properly), to having two, to having three miscarriages in a row and "knowing" there would never be another child, to having five more and almost losing my husband, to end up having three more, to finally, being done.

*crosses fingers*

*uncrosses fingers and counts....*

I guess that makes 10 kids.

Oh yes....we "waited" a couple of years after getting married.

I think God gives the grace to handle each stage of life, whether childless, child-full, or somewhere inbetween.

Despite having all these kids, whom I dearly love, I don't feel compelled to nag others to do the same. (pay no attention to my jesting comments on other blogs :-)

You're in college, fer cryin' out loud, and you shouldn't have to commit to wanting children!

That said, the really scary part is that when I was in college? I didn't want to have any children at all....

Clearly, the Apostle Paul agrees with Randy. However, I think there's a very important factor here that none of us are considering:

Dr. K doesn't have the foggiest clue what he's saying well over half the time. I am reminded of this every time I sit in class with him. I'm not sure whether his mind is trapped permanently in a time long gone, or in an alternate dimension none of us has ever experienced, or if he just sends it off to play elsewhere whenever he teaches, but the fact remains that he's pretty much clueless about pretty much [a lot of things]. It would be wise to keep this in mind when considering anything he says. He probably doesn't mean it, and if he does, it's probably because he doesn't know what it means.

In the hopes that you will actually read the verses referenced, I point those who have commented to a post by Ziggy on the purpose of marriage.

hmm . . . the html didn't seem to work . . . here's a direct link:
http://blog.hawkbats.com/?p=71
Enjoy.

Eh...children seem to be a pretty good bet for ideologically reproducing oneself. That said, if you don't have them, you will inevitably contribute to the marginalization of your ideals--especially in a democratic society.

Besides, having smaller versions of Randy would be amusing.

I've got to admit: the thought of multiple mini-Randys is enough fun that I have to come down on the side of encouraging Randy to find a way to be involved in the siring and raising of some children at some point down the line. We all know that it would be a worthy endeavor.